Question reblogged as text: More on size-specific spaces

champagneproblems:

therotund:

feel free to publish this if you like, but i feel terrible leaving books in your ask. please forgive me - brevity is /not/ my strong point. again, i’m not missing your point. i kind of feel like talking about it isn’t worth the trouble because you keep saying i’m missing your point and typing in all caps as if that will help me get it. i’m not missing your point. i understand it.

my point is: is there a way to make spaces safe for all of us? so that if a group of heavy fatties decides to get together, they feel comfortable and safe, but if there is a mixed group, it’s okay to join that one too? again, we’re not going to get anywhere unless it’s together. is there a way to make it so that, no matter how heavy you are, no matter what your body type, it’s okay for you to go /anywhere/ you like and be okay?

i wish life was like that - safe for all of us, wherever we wanted to be and whoever we wanted to be around - but it isn’t. i understand the concept of safe space - i just wish it wasn’t necessary. I wish I’d see more big bodies and big bellies, but for now, know i won’t. i just wonder how we can change that.

i wasn’t trying to make you angry and i hope you don’t feel as if i was trolling you. i apologize for making you angry, it wasn’t my intent at all.
-PK threeoh4

Lengthy comments are great.

I think it’s great to have the impulse to make all spaces safe for all sizes. I think it’s even better to actively work to make a diversity of people welcome in certain spaces. But I do not actually believe that that’s the only kind of space people need. I think there is something vital and safe in ways that cannot be duplicated to look around and see similar bodies. There’s something incredibly beautiful about a diversity of bodies but, especially if you are the only person who, for example, is too large to shop in any store in your social group. Even if diverse groups are totally welcoming, I think sometimes you just need the relief of being with people, even just online, who understand that because it is their experience, too.

Diverse groups can and should be designed to be as inclusive as possible - I think one way individuals can make groups of diverse fatties friendlier to both smaller fats and larger fats is to remember, on both ends of the spectrum, and respect that the experiences are different. I think talking about and sharing those experiences is one of the most important thing we can do to build community. “Fat is fat” negates those differences and erases size-specific experiences so never saying that is a good start.

One thing that I deal with that a smaller fat does not: 300 pounds is the common max rating for things like massage tables and the Wii Fit board and all sorts of surprising things. When I go to the doctor’s office, I have to not only worry about the doctor mistreating me, I have to worry about whether or not their examination table is physically strong enough to hold my weight. Not as an emotional concern - as a practical and physical one.

That can be a deeply shameful and difficult thing to discuss. “Fat is fat” denies that experience.

It’s a pretty common phenomenon that larger fats posting in diverse fat spaces don’t get as much feedback on pictures. Like I mentioned in another post, I once saw a commenter say it was just because larger fats don’t dress as well. I’d feel safer posting in diverse fat spaces if issues of access were acknowledged as a real thing and it weren’t just chalked up to “fatty fat fatties are just slobby” or whatever. I want to have the conversation with inbetweenies about how frustrating it is to fall between straight sizes, often cut on a juniors model, and plus sizes, usually cut on a womens model. But if I’m going to have that conversation then I want to know that inbetweenies are willing to have the conversation about how there are no malls in my entire city where I can go to shop. That sort of thing.

I don’t think you were trolling - I think it’s a really volatile issue and I think we SHOULD be mad at it.

Thanks for reblogging as text so I can post this. I remember reading discussion on the “fatshionista” lj about “inbetweenies” and snark about how “she’s not fat enough to post here” and I DID NOT GET IT and I felt enraged about being left out until I had been reading along for a long time, and learned about the existence of things like seatbelt extenders, and listened to people who had to explain - on a first date - that they couldn’t go to the movies because they didn’t fit in the seats, and listened to a friend of mine who asked me to think critically about saying things like “no one should shop at Old Navy” because it was the ONLY PLACE she could buy clothes that fit. I had no idea about that stuff. I had no idea even though my BMI is “obese” and I quit taking ballet because people made fun of me for getting fat. I hadn’t listened hard enough, and I didn’t get it.

Fat people experience oppression differently according to their size or weight, their body shape, their gender, their race, their age. All coalitions and communities have some things in common, but they also encompass people who differ in important ways. Minimizing or silencing someone’s critique on the grounds of “solidarity” or “community building” is normalizing, homogenizing bullshit.